What about Drake Maye?

[witljon]

None of us know for sure.

Guy on kfan today had them ranked:

Williams
Penix
Nix
Daniels
JJ
Maye

Said we should stay away for JJ and Maye. They both need too much work. Said he’d sit tight with our picks and take Penix and a defensive player.


So opinions are all over the place. Nobody knows. Some folks might end up right, but they just got lucky with a guess. Nobody knows.

Nobody has all their draft takes right, but I do like listening to Mel Kiper. I just haven’t heard anything from him lately.

[cunningham]

None of us know for sure.

Guy on kfan today had them ranked:

Williams
Penix
Nix
Daniels
JJ
Maye

Said we should stay away for JJ and Maye. They both need too much work. Said he’d sit tight with our picks and take Penix and a defensive player.


So opinions are all over the place. Nobody knows. Some folks might end up right, but they just got lucky with a guess. Nobody knows.

That dude is smoking some strong shit.

He didn’t predict they’d go in that order. That was the order he liked them. He said the best value was Penix. He felt we could probably get him at 23 and get a defender at 11. He acknowledged his was a dissenting opinion and the draft wouldn’t likely fall that way.

I was listening to that too. Had a high opinion of Penix and raved about his 40 times and pro day.

I’m not sold on Maye. Seems like Williams will be the best one and will be tough in our division. Unless the Bears mess it up? Daniels is the second best.

The rest are risky.

JJ McCarthy has moxy. But we kind of know how that goes in the NFL.

[Da Gas Man's Ghost]

I'm all in on Maye. He is the guy I want.

People who argue that they shouldn't give away future picks to trade up because it's a crap shoot seem to forget that the future picks that they don't want to give up are also a crap shoot. If you like Penix as the QB2 or QB3, fine. But if he is 4 or 5 on your list, why are they overvaluing future draft picks? It's very Twins like. Protect the prospect and play it safe.

If they like Maye or McCarthy, then go get him.

I'll say this. If Penix is so great, why aren't we hearing more about teams trying to get him. In fact, people seem to believe (and they could be wrong) that if the 4 QBs go off in the top 5, then Denver will be next one to take a QB and it will be Nix.

I like Penix but there are some major flaws.

[Beef Supreme]

I'm all in on Maye. He is the guy I want.

People who argue that they shouldn't give away future picks to trade up because it's a crap shoot seem to forget that the future picks that they don't want to give up are also a crap shoot. If you like Penix as the QB2 or QB3, fine. But if he is 4 or 5 on your list, why are they overvaluing future draft picks? It's very Twins like. Protect the prospect and play it safe.

If they like Maye or McCarthy, then go get him.

I'll say this. If Penix is so great, why aren't we hearing more about teams trying to get him. In fact, people seem to believe (and they could be wrong) that if the 4 QBs go off in the top 5, then Denver will be next one to take a QB and it will be Nix.

I like Penix but there are some major flaws.

I agree about the picks. And I'll add we're talking about a quarterback here. If you hit, who cares about the 2025 draft pick? We're talking about a guy who will be here until 2040 or so.

[cdr2529]

I'm all in on Maye. He is the guy I want.

People who argue that they shouldn't give away future picks to trade up because it's a crap shoot seem to forget that the future picks that they don't want to give up are also a crap shoot. If you like Penix as the QB2 or QB3, fine. But if he is 4 or 5 on your list, why are they overvaluing future draft picks? It's very Twins like. Protect the prospect and play it safe.

If they like Maye or McCarthy, then go get him.

I'll say this. If Penix is so great, why aren't we hearing more about teams trying to get him. In fact, people seem to believe (and they could be wrong) that if the 4 QBs go off in the top 5, then Denver will be next one to take a QB and it will be Nix.

I like Penix but there are some major flaws.I can't see giving up draft capital for McCarthy, but I could and would for Maye, and Daniels because if he was so good Michigan would have had him pass the ball more often

[D_H]

It is widely thought of by NFL personnel the Vikings appear to be focusing on Maye at this point. New quarterbacks coach Josh McCown has a long history with Maye, as he provided advice after watching Maye’s game film as a schoolboy quarterback at Myers Park (North Carolina) High School. The word is Vikings coach Kevin O’Connell is absolutely in love with him and would fit his system perfectly.

[William Munny]

It is widely thought of by NFL personnel the Vikings appear to be focusing on Maye at this point. New quarterbacks coach Josh McCown has a long history with Maye, as he provided advice after watching Maye’s game film as a schoolboy quarterback at Myers Park (North Carolina) High School. The word is Vikings coach Kevin O’Connell is absolutely in love with him and would fit his system perfectly.

[cunningham]

It is widely thought of by NFL personnel the Vikings appear to be focusing on Maye at this point. New quarterbacks coach Josh McCown has a long history with Maye, as he provided advice after watching Maye’s game film as a schoolboy quarterback at Myers Park (North Carolina) High School. The word is Vikings coach Kevin O’Connell is absolutely in love with him and would fit his system perfectly.

You gotta get the Pats to trade down. The only hope is that they don't see the point in taking the 3rd most popular quarterback after taking Mac Jones like that a few years ago.

[-VikingsTw-]

It is widely thought of by NFL personnel the Vikings appear to be focusing on Maye at this point. New quarterbacks coach Josh McCown has a long history with Maye, as he provided advice after watching Maye’s game film as a schoolboy quarterback at Myers Park (North Carolina) High School. The word is Vikings coach Kevin O’Connell is absolutely in love with him and would fit his system perfectly.

You gotta get the Pats to trade down. The only hope is that they don't see the point in taking the 3rd most popular quarterback after taking Mac Jones like that a few years ago.

It's possible that the Commanders and Patriots both pass on Maye for other QB's.

Maye could easily be available at #4. After watching his entire cutup of 2023 teams could be very worried how that season ended and how erratic the throwing became.

I don't think Maye is a bad passer but you just have to see it all in full. It really is a story of wow and wtf. JJ and Daniels are both hotter hands right now and if teams like them character wise this draft order is not out of the realm of possibility.

[-VikingsTw-]

It is widely thought of by NFL personnel the Vikings appear to be focusing on Maye at this point. New quarterbacks coach Josh McCown has a long history with Maye, as he provided advice after watching Maye’s game film as a schoolboy quarterback at Myers Park (North Carolina) High School. The word is Vikings coach Kevin O’Connell is absolutely in love with him and would fit his system perfectly.

I'm not saying this isn't true but I'm saying be careful what you think is actually fact.

I would be very surprised if that War Room was leaking true intentions to the public and every other team competing for these QB's.

[D_H]

It is widely thought of by NFL personnel the Vikings appear to be focusing on Maye at this point. New quarterbacks coach Josh McCown has a long history with Maye, as he provided advice after watching Maye’s game film as a schoolboy quarterback at Myers Park (North Carolina) High School. The word is Vikings coach Kevin O’Connell is absolutely in love with him and would fit his system perfectly.

I'm not saying this isn't true but I'm saying be careful what you think is actually fact.

I would be very surprised if that War Room was leaking true intentions to the public and every other team competing for these QB's.

Too much smoke - believe it.

For the record, I would stay at 11 and just take Penix - like Kurt Warner said - he’s the third best quarterback in the draft that would be OK. There’s no use giving him up next year’s number 1 draft pick which could be top seven or eight for a guy that might not be as good as Penix. Too big of gamble. Outside of Caleb Williams is there really that much of a difference between the other top quarterback Drake Maye , Daniels, Penix, or Nix? Those guys will all be starters probably within a year - likely every other quarterback coming in the draft will be career backups at best.

[mlhouse]

It's possible that the Commanders and Patriots both pass on Maye for other QB's.

Maye could easily be available at #4. After watching his entire cutup of 2023 teams could be very worried how that season ended and how erratic the throwing became.

I don't think Maye is a bad passer but you just have to see it all in full. It really is a story of wow and wtf. JJ and Daniels are both hotter hands right now and if teams like them character wise this draft order is not out of the realm of possibility.

It is entirely possible. While you never know what a NFL team is going to do, Williams and Daniels have to be the top two players in this draft just because of their NFL comps: Mahomes for Williams and Lamar Jackson for Daniels.

QB3 and QB4 probably come down to the draft evaluators preferences in style a bit. I have McCarthy slightly ahead of May based on that inconsistency you brought up. But I do think Maye's mechanical issues are correctable making him a potential franchise QB.

[Oriole81]

It is widely thought of by NFL personnel the Vikings appear to be focusing on Maye at this point. New quarterbacks coach Josh McCown has a long history with Maye, as he provided advice after watching Maye’s game film as a schoolboy quarterback at Myers Park (North Carolina) High School. The word is Vikings coach Kevin O’Connell is absolutely in love with him and would fit his system perfectly.

I'm not saying this isn't true but I'm saying be careful what you think is actually fact.

I would be very surprised if that War Room was leaking true intentions to the public and every other team competing for these QB's.

Unless they presume that all the teams will automatically think that they like the opposite of what the teams are publicly saying, so they say they like Maye knowing that the others will assume they really like McCarthy.

Then the other teams will do what they can to jump the Vikes for McCarthy, but in actuality all that does is make it easier and more affordable for them to get Maye, who is the one they wanted all along.

[-VikingsTw-]

It is widely thought of by NFL personnel the Vikings appear to be focusing on Maye at this point. New quarterbacks coach Josh McCown has a long history with Maye, as he provided advice after watching Maye’s game film as a schoolboy quarterback at Myers Park (North Carolina) High School. The word is Vikings coach Kevin O’Connell is absolutely in love with him and would fit his system perfectly.

I'm not saying this isn't true but I'm saying be careful what you think is actually fact.

I would be very surprised if that War Room was leaking true intentions to the public and every other team competing for these QB's.

Too much smoke - believe it.

For the record, I would stay at 11 and just take Penix - like Kurt Warner said - he’s the third best quarterback in the draft that would be OK. There’s no use giving him up next year’s number 1 draft pick which could be top seven or eight for a guy that might not be as good as Penix. Too big of gamble. Outside of Caleb Williams is there really that much of a difference between the other top quarterback Drake Maye , Daniels, Penix, or Nix? Those guys will all be starters probably within a year - likely every other quarterback coming in the draft will be career backups at best.

It might be. Frankly I don't care how it's done as long as it gets done. If they didn't have to give up picks and get a guy they can win a SB with than that is by far the best case scenario.

I'll be doing Penix full 2023 soon. I know he's good but I felt like he choked in the biggest game of his life and I'm looking for a QB that's a killer in the moment. Maybe Penix needs more than one chance. I'll be looking to see if the rumors are true that he's bad throwing in the intermediate.

[D_H]

I'm not saying this isn't true but I'm saying be careful what you think is actually fact.

I would be very surprised if that War Room was leaking true intentions to the public and every other team competing for these QB's.

Too much smoke - believe it.

For the record, I would stay at 11 and just take Penix - like Kurt Warner said - he’s the third best quarterback in the draft that would be OK. There’s no use giving him up next year’s number 1 draft pick which could be top seven or eight for a guy that might not be as good as Penix. Too big of gamble. Outside of Caleb Williams is there really that much of a difference between the other top quarterback Drake Maye , Daniels, Penix, or Nix? Those guys will all be starters probably within a year - likely every other quarterback coming in the draft will be career backups at best.

It might be. Frankly I don't care how it's done as long as it gets done. If they didn't have to give up picks and get a guy they can win a SB with than that is by far the best case scenario.

I'll be doing Penix full 2023 soon. I know he's good but I felt like he choked in the biggest game of his life and I'm looking for a QB that's a killer in the moment. Maybe Penix needs more than one chance. I'll be looking to see if the rumors are true that he's bad throwing in the intermediate.

He didn’t look great, but he looked 10 times better than JJ McCarthy did with A LOT LESS talent around him. Ask yourself this if the two quarterback switched teams would have JJ McCarthy got Washington to the national championship game?? lol na lol

[-VikingsTw-]

It is widely thought of by NFL personnel the Vikings appear to be focusing on Maye at this point. New quarterbacks coach Josh McCown has a long history with Maye, as he provided advice after watching Maye’s game film as a schoolboy quarterback at Myers Park (North Carolina) High School. The word is Vikings coach Kevin O’Connell is absolutely in love with him and would fit his system perfectly.

I'm not saying this isn't true but I'm saying be careful what you think is actually fact.

I would be very surprised if that War Room was leaking true intentions to the public and every other team competing for these QB's.

Unless they presume that all the teams will automatically think that they like the opposite of what the teams are publicly saying, so they say they like Maye knowing that the others will assume they really like McCarthy.

Then the other teams will do what they can to jump the Vikes for McCarthy, but in actuality all that does is make it easier and more affordable for them to get Maye, who is the one they wanted all along.

They might not be leaking anything at all, people will write for clicks...

If other teams believe in any of these reports, god bless em.

[-VikingsTw-]

He didn’t look great, but he looked 10 times better than JJ McCarthy did with A LOT LESS talent around him. Ask yourself this if the two quarterback switched teams would have JJ McCarthy got Washington to the national championship game?? lol na lol

Yea but that's not "what happened".

You can't take away results. People always want to take something away from a guy instead of accepting what actually happened.

JJ did it at the highest level in college. Doesn't guarantee anything moving forward but if he finds himself in another great situation down the line at some point it's a pattern and he's just a winner.

And then some guys will be Fantasy Football stat machines but never really win win.

[Oriole81]

He didn’t look great, but he looked 10 times better than JJ McCarthy did with A LOT LESS talent around him. Ask yourself this if the two quarterback switched teams would have JJ McCarthy got Washington to the national championship game?? lol na lol

Yea but that's not "what happened".

You can't take away results. People always want to take something away from a guy instead of accepting what actually happened.

JJ did it at the highest level in college. Doesn't guarantee anything moving forward but if he finds himself in another great situation down the line at some point it's a pattern and he's just a winner.

And then some guys will be Fantasy Football stat machines but never really win win.

I don't think that's a fair representation.
What actually happened in the National championship game is that Donovan Edwards broke loose for TD runs of 41 yards and 46 yards early, and the best team in the league got to play from ahead for the rest of the game.

I'm not trying to denigrate JJ, but I don't think its fair to say that what he did that day is representative of what he would do in the future, especially if he is on a team that is playing from behind or needs the QB to make up for a lack of talent elsewhere.

[-VikingsTw-]

He didn’t look great, but he looked 10 times better than JJ McCarthy did with A LOT LESS talent around him. Ask yourself this if the two quarterback switched teams would have JJ McCarthy got Washington to the national championship game?? lol na lol

Yea but that's not "what happened".

You can't take away results. People always want to take something away from a guy instead of accepting what actually happened.

JJ did it at the highest level in college. Doesn't guarantee anything moving forward but if he finds himself in another great situation down the line at some point it's a pattern and he's just a winner.

And then some guys will be Fantasy Football stat machines but never really win win.

I don't think that's a fair representation.
What actually happened in the National championship game is that Donovan Edwards broke loose for TD runs of 41 yards and 46 yards early, and the best team in the league got to play from ahead for the rest of the game.

I'm not trying to denigrate JJ, but I don't think its fair to say that what he did that day is representative of what he would do in the future, especially if he is on a team that is playing from behind or needs the QB to make up for a lack of talent elsewhere.

You need to re read my post.

[Oriole81]

Yea but that's not "what happened".

You can't take away results. People always want to take something away from a guy instead of accepting what actually happened.

JJ did it at the highest level in college. Doesn't guarantee anything moving forward but if he finds himself in another great situation down the line at some point it's a pattern and he's just a winner.

And then some guys will be Fantasy Football stat machines but never really win win.

I don't think that's a fair representation.
What actually happened in the National championship game is that Donovan Edwards broke loose for TD runs of 41 yards and 46 yards early, and the best team in the league got to play from ahead for the rest of the game.

I'm not trying to denigrate JJ, but I don't think its fair to say that what he did that day is representative of what he would do in the future, especially if he is on a team that is playing from behind or needs the QB to make up for a lack of talent elsewhere.

You need to re read my post.

I don't think so, especially when paired with your other active thread about the difference between fantasy football QBs and winners.
I do think that there are truly special QBs that can individually make their teams better, but you maybe get one or two of those in an entire generation and for the most part, you never see it coming.

Brady was like that, and he was a 6th rd pick.
Mahomes was like that, but fell all the way to #10, and probably doesn't end up as good as he is if he goes to a bad team.

Are you saying you think JJ McCarthy will be one of those rare, once or twice in a generation, QBs that can singularly take their team on their back and will them to a Super Bowl?

[-VikingsTw-]

I don't think so, especially when paired with your other active thread about the difference between fantasy football QBs and winners.
I do think that there are truly special QBs that can individually make their teams better, but you maybe get one or two of those in an entire generation and for the most part, you never see it coming.

Brady was like that, and he was a 6th rd pick.
Mahomes was like that, but fell all the way to #10, and probably doesn't end up as good as he is if he goes to a bad team.

Are you saying you think JJ McCarthy will be one of those rare, once or twice in a generation, QBs that can singularly take their team on their back and will them to a Super Bowl?

None of them can carry a team by themselves. The NFL is to competitive and there is to many moving pieces on a football roster. Take for example the year the Chiefs lost the SB. That was primarily because Mahomes oline got hurt and he was running for his life. In one offseason that organization rebuilt the entire offensive line and never looked back. They are a grade A quality franchise.

Brady got drafted to a solid team and the more time that went on they attracted and created the tools around Brady. Once he left the entire thing fell flat on it's face and now they have a desert as a roster. This isn't a coincidence. Brady also magically found himself on another awesome roster in TB and won another ring.

So at the end of day you need help, all the greats needed help. Is JJ the next great? I don't know for sure but he's on a nice trajectory.

[Oriole81]

I don't think so, especially when paired with your other active thread about the difference between fantasy football QBs and winners.
I do think that there are truly special QBs that can individually make their teams better, but you maybe get one or two of those in an entire generation and for the most part, you never see it coming.

Brady was like that, and he was a 6th rd pick.
Mahomes was like that, but fell all the way to #10, and probably doesn't end up as good as he is if he goes to a bad team.

Are you saying you think JJ McCarthy will be one of those rare, once or twice in a generation, QBs that can singularly take their team on their back and will them to a Super Bowl?

None of them can carry a team by themselves. The NFL is to competitive and there is to many moving pieces on a football roster. Take for example the year the Chiefs lost the SB. That was primarily because Mahomes oline got hurt and he was running for his life. In one offseason that organization rebuilt the entire offensive line and never looked back. They are a grade A quality franchise.

Brady got drafted to a solid team and the more time that went on they attracted and created the tools around Brady. Once he left the entire thing fell flat on it's face and now they have a desert as a roster. This isn't a coincidence. Brady also magically found himself on another awesome roster in TB and won another ring.

So at the end of day you need help, all the greats needed help. Is JJ the next great? I don't know for sure but he's on a nice trajectory.

But how do you singularly quantify what JJ actually is, when he happened to be on the best team in college football and they gifted him an early two TD lead in the championship game?

[-VikingsTw-]

But how do you singularly quantify what JJ actually is, when he happened to be on the best team in college football and they gifted him an early two TD lead in the championship game?

I would start with the results. JJ was on a really good team with a really good HC. He won that award over all the other QB's in college football. Out of all those QB's JJ was the one that lead that team for 2 years and lost one game. He gets credit for that, not the other way around.

Out of all the QB's KC could have drafted or gotten in FA, Mahomes was the QB they got. Credit to him for going there instead of Chicago.

As far as what JJ is as a player I would call him surgical. He'll carve it up and he's very good in the pocket, escaping the pocket and extending plays. He's accurate, he's a super competitor and he's tough.

[cunningham]

It is widely thought of by NFL personnel the Vikings appear to be focusing on Maye at this point. New quarterbacks coach Josh McCown has a long history with Maye, as he provided advice after watching Maye’s game film as a schoolboy quarterback at Myers Park (North Carolina) High School. The word is Vikings coach Kevin O’Connell is absolutely in love with him and would fit his system perfectly.

You gotta get the Pats to trade down. The only hope is that they don't see the point in taking the 3rd most popular quarterback after taking Mac Jones like that a few years ago.

It's possible that the Commanders and Patriots both pass on Maye for other QB's.

Maye could easily be available at #4. After watching his entire cutup of 2023 teams could be very worried how that season ended and how erratic the throwing became.

I don't think Maye is a bad passer but you just have to see it all in full. It really is a story of wow and wtf. JJ and Daniels are both hotter hands right now and if teams like them character wise this draft order is not out of the realm of possibility.

I never really like guys who had a good season in college followed by a poorer one. That was Rick's MO: draft guys who had great junior years and then fell a bit because they were not as good the next year. Most of those guys never panned out. One issue looking at these guys is who transferred, why they transferred, how were they prior to transfer? What changed and will it continue?

Then you have the unkowns because they are really young. JJ McCarthy is young and unkown, but he improved each year.

Caleb William transferred. His completion percentage rose the final year, but he had less yards, less TDs, and more sacks. Only 3 years of college football.

Jayden Daniels played 3 years unspectacularly at a different school, but his stats improved the last two years in a row dramatically in every category. He just finished his 5th year of college ball.

JJ McCarthy played at 1 school and got better each year - with barely 2 years of starting. Great completion percentage, but not the yards of Daniels or Williams. Better rating and won more games.

Drake Maye played at one school and is young as well. His stats dropped from year 1 of being a starter to year 2. Every stat went down this past season. He is young and had a great year in 2022, but can competition and losing players lead to that big of a drop?

Penix has 6 years of college football with the first 4 at Indiana. He wouldn't even be on an NFL practice squad with his stats from that school. His completion percentage is lower than the other guys, but still above Maye's. Tons of yards. Older.

Nix has been playing college football for 5 years. Auburn was half decent, but still probably wouldn't have been drafted. At Oregon he had a good completion percentage, yards, and a ton of TDs. Seems like a better prospect than Penix Jr.

It is a hard choice. Maye and McCarthy are young and did much better right off the bat. I'd probably take JJ over Maye based on age and stats. They have the biggest unkowns because they played at one school and did fairly well.

What if Maye's one good season was his peak? What if JJ just wasn't asked to do more and has a lot more in his toolbox?

I guess I'd be a little nervous about us taking Penix or Maye. I'd probably lean more toward Nix than Penix, but not trading up for either of them. JJ might be worth a trade to #4. Maye at #3 for a ton of picks traded would be dangerous.

But I am not an qualified to make this call. I wouldn't be too surprised if the Pats did trade down, took JJ, or took Maye based on the hype.

[Oriole81]

But how do you singularly quantify what JJ actually is, when he happened to be on the best team in college football and they gifted him an early two TD lead in the championship game?

I would start with the results. JJ was on a really good team with a really good HC. He won that award over all the other QB's in college football. Out of all those QB's JJ was the one that lead that team for 2 years and lost one game. He gets credit for that, not the other way around.

Out of all the QB's KC could have drafted or gotten in FA, Mahomes was the QB they got. Credit to him for going there instead of Chicago.

As far as what JJ is as a player I would call him surgical. He'll carve it up and he's very good in the pocket, escaping the pocket and extending plays. He's accurate, he's a super competitor and he's tough.

He can have credit, but you have to be able to compartmentalize that as well. That doesn't mean he projects as a prospect more inclined to win vs other similarly rated guys. Alot of QBs have won in college but then not had success in the pros. In fact it happened alot.

Mahomes wasn't a winner in college. He was 13-19.

Regarding the last sentence, I agree. But I would also say the same thing about Josh Allen, but you just said in the other thread that he's just a fantasy football stat stuffer.

[weimy froob]

He didn’t look great, but he looked 10 times better than JJ McCarthy did with A LOT LESS talent around him. Ask yourself this if the two quarterback switched teams would have JJ McCarthy got Washington to the national championship game?? lol na lol

Yea but that's not "what happened".

You can't take away results. People always want to take something away from a guy instead of accepting what actually happened.

JJ did it at the highest level in college. Doesn't guarantee anything moving forward but if he finds himself in another great situation down the line at some point it's a pattern and he's just a winner.

And then some guys will be Fantasy Football stat machines but never really win win.

I don't think that's a fair representation.
What actually happened in the National championship game is that Donovan Edwards broke loose for TD runs of 41 yards and 46 yards early, and the best team in the league got to play from ahead for the rest of the game.

I'm not trying to denigrate JJ, but I don't think its fair to say that what he did that day is representative of what he would do in the future, especially if he is on a team that is playing from behind or needs the QB to make up for a lack of talent elsewhere.

you're forgetting what he did in the actual "championship" game against alabama. if it wasn't for his play in the 4th quarter against arguably the best team in the country they would've won that game and would've destroyed washington in the title game. imho.

[-VikingsTw-]

But how do you singularly quantify what JJ actually is, when he happened to be on the best team in college football and they gifted him an early two TD lead in the championship game?

I would start with the results. JJ was on a really good team with a really good HC. He won that award over all the other QB's in college football. Out of all those QB's JJ was the one that lead that team for 2 years and lost one game. He gets credit for that, not the other way around.

Out of all the QB's KC could have drafted or gotten in FA, Mahomes was the QB they got. Credit to him for going there instead of Chicago.

As far as what JJ is as a player I would call him surgical. He'll carve it up and he's very good in the pocket, escaping the pocket and extending plays. He's accurate, he's a super competitor and he's tough.

He can have credit, but you have to be able to compartmentalize that as well. That doesn't mean he projects as a prospect more inclined to win vs other similarly rated guys. Alot of QBs have won in college but then not had success in the pros. In fact it happened alot.

Mahomes wasn't a winner in college. He was 13-19.

Regarding the last sentence, I agree. But I would also say the same thing about Josh Allen, but you just said in the other thread that he's just a fantasy football stat stuffer.

Yea I've talked about how much stalk to put into a college winner just recently. At the same time it's part of the eval with JJ. I like many things about him, It's an entire eval of everything not just winning with a good college team.

Picking a QB based on winning in college is not a grantee, history shows us that and if it was true there would never be any doubt who to take but that's not how it works.

[Oriole81]

Yea but that's not "what happened".

You can't take away results. People always want to take something away from a guy instead of accepting what actually happened.

JJ did it at the highest level in college. Doesn't guarantee anything moving forward but if he finds himself in another great situation down the line at some point it's a pattern and he's just a winner.

And then some guys will be Fantasy Football stat machines but never really win win.

I don't think that's a fair representation.
What actually happened in the National championship game is that Donovan Edwards broke loose for TD runs of 41 yards and 46 yards early, and the best team in the league got to play from ahead for the rest of the game.

I'm not trying to denigrate JJ, but I don't think its fair to say that what he did that day is representative of what he would do in the future, especially if he is on a team that is playing from behind or needs the QB to make up for a lack of talent elsewhere.

you're forgetting what he did in the actual "championship" game against alabama. if it wasn't for his play in the 4th quarter against arguably the best team in the country they would've won that game and would've destroyed washington in the title game. imho.

If we're playing that game though then Penix's semifinal game should count too. This whole convo goes back to the OP entirely writing off Penix because of the natty game and heralding McCarthy.
But in Penix's semi game against a very good Texas team/defense, he was 29 of 38 for 430 yards and 2 TDs, and that win had them at 10 wins in a row when the difference is under 10 points.

I'll clarify that I would still rank McCarthy ahead of Penix, but I just think the OP was getting a little ahead of himself. There's plenty of QBs that have clutch game performances.

[-VikingsTw-]

Penix missed his throws. Choked.

With that said it's not over for him. I didn't particularly care for it along with his list of injuries and the Vikings history with QB's they drafted and essentially getting career ending injuries with the team.

Makes me nervous but if he's gonna win a SB with Minnesota I don't care what I think about it right now.

[weimy froob]

I don't think that's a fair representation.
What actually happened in the National championship game is that Donovan Edwards broke loose for TD runs of 41 yards and 46 yards early, and the best team in the league got to play from ahead for the rest of the game.

I'm not trying to denigrate JJ, but I don't think its fair to say that what he did that day is representative of what he would do in the future, especially if he is on a team that is playing from behind or needs the QB to make up for a lack of talent elsewhere.

you're forgetting what he did in the actual "championship" game against alabama. if it wasn't for his play in the 4th quarter against arguably the best team in the country they would've won that game and would've destroyed washington in the title game. imho.

If we're playing that game though then Penix's semifinal game should count too. This whole convo goes back to the OP entirely writing off Penix because of the natty game and heralding McCarthy.
But in Penix's semi game against a very good Texas team/defense, he was 29 of 38 for 430 yards and 2 TDs, and that win had them at 10 wins in a row when the difference is under 10 points.

I'll clarify that I would still rank McCarthy ahead of Penix, but I just think the OP was getting a little ahead of himself. There's plenty of QBs that have clutch game performances.

JJ beat a team with a superb defense. the other game was a shootout and penix was great. then we saw him go against a better defense.

anyways, i think there are more than a couple QBs that will be able to hit vikings open receivers. maye is actually having some red flags come up because of his inaccuracy with the throws that you just have to make in the NFL to succeed. this is what's happening as the tape gets scrutinized. penix has a medical analysis "that isn't awful." what does that mean? i've personally got a red flag on him because of his injury history.

JJ throws lasers and is fast. i think he could hit the vikings open receivers. i think daniels would be dynamic and might get the vikings offense to where it wants to be faster than any of the other guys. i think nix could hit the open receivers. heck, i wish the vikings would've given darnold a two year contract that was partially guaranteed in the second year at that salary because he might be able to do it too.